No revolution yet in Rotterdam

Far more people waved at the Queen on Princes Day than stood on Malieveld a day earlier to protest against austerity. Why are we unable to revolt? And what can we learn from the Tahrir Square uprising. These were some of the questions that came up during 'Lessons in revolt', the International Choice debate.

 'We did not unleash an uprising tonight,' presenter Lex Bohmeijer would observe somewhat bemusedly at the end of the debate. Perhaps - especially in the straitjacket of a Keurig Nederlands Debat - we are simply incapable of kicking against some conventions for a change. The times during the evening when unconventionality was brushed against, it was always quickly appeased. These bristles were not based on class consciousness or higher ideals, but mainly on the incompatible characters of sociologist Willem Schinkel and historian Thierry Baudet.

Back to the beginning of the debate, back to the Tahrir Square. Ruud Gielens, theatre maker, was in Cairo during the uprising and made a performance about the revolution: "The biggest lesson for the activists," Gielens said, "was that the revolution is really just beginning now. With military power threatening to consolidate, revolutionaries will have to change tactics. But they lack leaders to continue the revolution. 'The beauty of revolution was that there were no leaders. But now they are needed, Gielens thought.

Open-air museum

The speakers were quick to agree that what is happening in Egypt is hopeful, but that the West should be careful to project its own ideas of freedom and revolution onto events. Willem Schinkels: 'That uprising is just as much an uprising against us and our governments that have maintained dictatorial regimes for decades. Modesty and self-reflection befits us.' Gielens: 'The first banner that hung on parliament said, 'No Foreign Intervention.'

We still consider ourselves very important in Europe, but our role in the world has been played out, the panel then unanimously noted. Benali: 'We are too rich and too old. Nobody wants to work overtime and we are just pessimistic. Europe is an open-air museum. There is also nothing we should rebel against.' Schinkels added that our ideologies from the 19^e-century have been exhausted.

Yet the elderly French writer calls Stéphane Hessel in his booklet 'Indignez-vous' up to resist the hotly contested values we are now squandering. The question, however, Baudet said, is whether that rebellion is the solution. Hessel mainly wants to return to the old, when we should be looking forward. The system as we have created it now has become unsustainable.

Former politician Hedy D'Ancona was pleased with 'Indignez-vous': it does not settle for the status quo. 'It is about a hope I still cherish. I do not wish to settle for the injustice that is being presented to us now.'

Struggle on Radio One

The problem, Schinkels believes, lies mainly in the depoliticisation of politics. Under Purple, politics became 'problem management.' Baudet: 'But populism shows precisely a great return to politics.' Schinkels: 'That is precisely the tragedy of populism. It rebels against this depoliticisation, but in the end they mainly find that they are going to solve the problems even more efficiently.'

The antagonism between Baudet and Schinkels was now beginning to brew nicely, and Benali too revolted, as the conversation was now drifting very far away from revolt. But according to the mores of debate, that revolt was quickly appeased.

D'Ancona too expressed that everything was stirring inside her to revolt. But mainly to break free from the existing structures, from the political parties perhaps. Because they too - including the left-wing ones - have no substantial new visions and are stuck in the same discourse. Benali agreed with her. We are blind to the big changes in the world and meanwhile we argue with one-liners on Radio One. According to Benali, art can help us offer fictional alternatives to reality. But on the other hand, revolution only really occurs when you actually have something to lose. And we don't have that. D'Ancona: 'We need to work creatively with the harsh reality and for that you also need artists.'

The comments on art resulted in another snibbish debate on budget cuts, which was quickly cut short by Bohlmeijer. Back to Tahrir Square and the revolution it went again, and to the question, raised from the audience by theatre-maker Guido Kleene, of why it was precisely in Egypt that the revolution could arise. A revolution, Schinkels thought, requires an urban class, a population with many young people and a social problem, which in Egypt was shaped by high food prices.

In the Netherlands, he reiterated, the ideal conditions for a revolution do not really present themselves. 'We have a very broad middle class, which also means that politics is hardly differentiated. If you sit somewhere in the middle, you are always right. Maybe if the gap between rich and poor gets even wider because of the cabinet measures...'