Frieda Mulisch: 'I'm not going to be doubted by what others say about me'

Adultery, lustful sex and desperately dating 40-somethings - these are the spicy ingredients of caSINO, the debut novel by Frieda Mulisch. On their search for true love, her protagonists Polly and Sam scour dating app caSINO, a kind of Tinder. We talk to her about her book, literary aspirations and, of course, her father Harry Mulisch. 'If Tinder had existed 50 years ago, there is no doubt he would have been on it.'

You could call it a modern comedy of manners, the lighthearted novel caSINO. In her book, Frieda Mulisch stages with noticeable pleasure a recognisable, Rand urban world in which main characters Polly and Sam take turns talking about their amorous adventures. Both have good jobs, good friends, but no steady relationship. While in their circle of friends some relationships begin to show the first cracks because of adultery, or end in divorce, they skim the dating app caSINO in search of the Real One and indulge their carnal lusts.

Book for all

'A recognisable, entertaining book for everyone,' an upbeat Frieda Mulisch describes her novel. 'It is not elitist; it is about your best friends and about yourself, if you dare to admit it. I think many people in their twenties, thirties and forties will recognise a lot in it. What it does to you, that search for love, or how you can feel when you are in bed with someone when you really don't want to be. All the situations have really happened. So it is satire, but also true. Some things I have experienced myself, others I have heard from friends. So many things happen to people in their forties: some girlfriends suddenly fall in love with a woman, others get divorced or cheat. It's the "is this all?" phase.'

Your poetry collection was featured in a column in de Volkskrant slapped down. What do you expect at caSINO?

'I don't know, but I don't demand more than two stars.' [Laughs] 'I'm not going to doubt my work because of what someone says. My father always said: for now, they are talking about you, not the other way around. It's not léúk, of course, but I don't let a negative review put me off. Rogi Wieg, a celebrated poet, liked my book of poetry very much, for instance. That was much more important to me.

Just a few years ago, you said you preferred poetry to a novel because poetry was not your father's field.

'Neither is this.'

In terms of content, style and literary content, no, but it is a novel. What would he have thought of it?

'First, it doesn't matter because he is dead. Secondly, I think if he were still alive, he would flip through the book and ask if I'm happy with it. 'Yes, Dad. Then he would say: good luck, I'm proud of you. I don't know if he would read it. He had already read everything he wanted, I only saw him with newspapers.'

Would you have dared publish it if he had lived?

'Yes, this book definitely does. What I said a few years ago about a novel was about a high-concept, intellectual novel. But caSINO came so naturally and was so enjoyable to write, I didn't want to fight it. I've read it a hundred times and still find it incredibly funny. So I would have written it even if my father had lived. Besides, if Tinder had existed 50 years ago, there's no doubt he would have been on it.'

Frieda Mulisch: 'My father had to die so that I could flourish.'

But it cannot be a coincidence that you started publishing only after his death.

'That's not it either. I was always writing, but I wanted to discover what it was like for me to write. To me, my father is just my father and not the famous writer, but of course that is different in the outside world. Yet there is not a hair on my head that thinks about writing under a pseudonym. I am Frieda Mulisch. That name attracts attention and I am put under a magnifying glass, but I don't care.

When he was alive, I didn't want to publish. Then he died, and I published a book of poetry. I thought a novel was still too precarious at the time, but so it turns out it wasn't. That big shadow has fallen away. The inhibiting influence was mainly in me; it has nothing to do with how people in the outside world look at it. Do you understand the difference? For me, as a father, he was an impressive person, so he had to die so that I could allow myself to flourish, in this respect at least.'

Own style

Was it difficult to find your own style and voice?

'No, that came naturally. My good friend Marc Allick said: do you know what's not out there yet? A book about dating forty-somethings, written from a man and a woman's point of view. I grabbed pen and paper and started writing. The characters immediately started to come alive. There was no stopping them. It's quite short sentences, I don't explain much, it's to the point. That was how the story needed to be told. I hope Polly and Sam become their new best friends for readers, as they did for me. I could totally see them for myself: how they looked, how they talked, what they felt. I would be sad if people thought Sam was a nasty man or Polly a stupid bitch. I think Sam and his friends are really hi-la-ric. But Polly is closest to my heart. I really hope she becomes happy.'

Isn't that dating world actually characterised by emptiness?

'The sex they indulge in, that search for love, fascinates me. Women often think they can get closer to someone through sex, so that they will eventually get love. Men sometimes only want sex, but they also prefer to fuck someone they love and who loves them. It all seems very empty, because you can end up in bed with a random person while it does not pay off and you really will not cherish fond memories of it later. But if you look deeper, it is just the opposite of empty, because that search is all about a deep desire that you are trying to realise. So then search, because what else is there to do? If you stay home alone, nothing at all happens.'

Suppose the book gets slammed in the reviews...

'... then I write part two on purpose!'

How high do your literary ambitions reach?

'Even if only three people read the book, I hope they will laugh and enjoy it as much as I did. I have no ambition, except that I want to keep writing. Maybe because of this book I will soon be asked as a regular sex consultant for a newspaper or magazine, you don't know. Will I suddenly be considered the expert on secret loves. What was that woman's name before, Margriet or Miep? Mona! I'll just become the Mona of sex. But then I'll probably give very different advice from her.'

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