Pregnancy director Nina Spijkers was challenging The National Theatre on completion of Coriolanus

"That's what I'm going to tell Nina first, that afterwards the young women were the first to stand up and applaud and yell with enthusiasm for our Coriolanus."

Remco van Rijn, dramaturge at Het Nationale Theater, speaks to us after a try-out, just before the premiere of Coriolanus on 18 February. And Nina = Nina Spijkers, the play's original director

What were the challenges in editing making Coriolanus? Van Rijn: "Nina really wanted a flashy, West Wing and Netflix-like elaboration, so that required a lot of deletion. The play is integrally much longer and some episodes are complicated and bonkers. Like the war and the election process. We had to merge scenes and characters, retranslate words and sometimes move sentences around.

From 'patricians' we made 'elite', the 'people's tribunes' became 'representatives of the people'. The text immediately sounded more topical. For some characters we sometimes lacked text, such as for Virgilia, Coriolanus' wife, and for Titus. That can be tricky for actors when rehearsing, you don't want to give them the feeling: I could have stayed at home."

Pregnancy and house remodelling for a while

But the biggest challenge of all for Remco van Rijn gave an announcement in August 2022: "A happy phone call from Nina that she was pregnant. And also: I'm due on 18 February, exactly the day of the premiere."

Wonderful of course, but what to do: ask a somewhat lesser-known director to continue Spijkers' work in exactly the same way or ask a renowned director for the final stage? With the choice of Liesbeth Coltof, HNT brought in a topper with a tremendous track record, with two 'Der Faust' awards, an important German directing prize. But also a woman of a different generation from Spijkers, with different experiences and views.

He did not find the transition between the two directors easy: "The making process ended up going very well, but it was still a mindfuck. Someone else comes to remodel your room. It scares you, the actors a lot more. Everyone thought: now we will get to play a completely different play again."

There was a practical solution to staying in good terms. Both live in Haarlem, so they could drive together to rehearsals and discuss a lot about Coltof's ideas for change. Back in the car, they discussed the day.

In the end, the 'rebuild' turned out better than expected, according to Van Rijn: "Now that the dust has settled, this is the performance we had in mind. The shape is slightly different, but it is what Nina had in mind. For Nina, it had to be sexy, but also empowering for young women who might identify with Yela."

In this light, it is understandable that Van Rijn was keen to tell Nina Spijkers that young women were the first to stand up after the performance: this confirms that it is her Coriolanus. However, Van Rijn says honestly, "It was a great gift to work with two powerful female directors on one production. Although I hope never to have to do such a complex project again with two directors handing over the baton halfway through."

Sigrid Kaag

Prior to the proposals by the Education Department, the enthusiastic youngsters were given an introduction about the Roman era of Coriolanus, Shakespeare's play of the same name and Nina Spijkers' choices.

In interviews beforehand, Spijkers said she was keen to portray a woman as a howard, who would play the screaming and ranting Coriolanus in full. Because, she believes, rage is much less tolerated from women than from men. When men shout it underlines their heroism, shouting women are condemned as hysterical.

Is that so? I discussed this with my teenage daughter and said, "In my time, you had plenty of screaming mothers, with all those children around them, they had to scream. And sometimes there was a fishwife who also went down the street screaming loudly."

She: "Fishwife? What a word, that's already a condemnation. What is the equivalent for 'wife' or 'fishwife' in men?... You see, you don't know that."

Van Rijn (49): "I recognise what you're saying; my mother could also get well angry and inspired considerable awe. But in sectors like business, media and politics, with predominant mores of masculinity, female anger is more quickly condemned."

Implicitly, perhaps, the piece is about the hostility towards female leaders like Sigrid Kaag, although she is not known for shouting. Van Rijn does not name any politicians, but says: "The play should move audiences to think about leadership, and especially acceptance of female leadership. That is well on the cards."

From Shakespeare to contemporary

Van Rijn has been involved in the performance from minute 1: "I read pieces with the dramaturgy department, our artistic directors Eric de Vroedt and Noël Fischer, and the guest directors. We asked Nina Spijkers because of her interest in classical repertoire. That was secured at Het Nationale Theater by Theu Boermans, and we would like to continue that line after his departure from the company with a new generation of directors."

HNT had lesser-known plays by Shakespeare on tap, including Coriolanus. "Nina said after only 20 pages: why doesn't everyone want to play this? I said: read it first, because in some ways it is also a crap play, difficult, unruly. But we shared the curiosity. Shakespeare demands a lot from the artistic team, because his texts don't automatically portray appealing flesh-and-blood people. You really have to get down to business."

Van Rijn also wanted Coriolanus to be played by a woman, from a different perspective. Spijkers emphasised how female leads are treated differently, she also notices this on stage as a director. "That fascinates her and is an important entry point. As a man, I like the fact that instead of a son and mother, which immediately evoke a Freudian relationship, for once I can portray a mother and daughter."

Van Rijn also noted the effects of a 'gender reversal' at OustFaust of Tom Lanoye and Theu Boermans experienced: "When you do that, you suddenly see much more precisely what is happening in the text. In Coriolanus are all passages about leadership, which is linked to 'typically male' traits. With a man in the lead role, it's easy to read over that. Language is strongly gendered, you only see that when you start reversing. 'She stood her ground very well' then becomes an odd expression."

Gender activism

We live in a time when gender equality is professed and not differences celebrated. Van Rijn: "For me, such a reversal of gender is a way of sharpening the lens, with Nina it is more activism. She wants to emphasise equality in terms of competences, but at the same time point out inequalities in terms of position and opportunities. Coriolanus' female partner has stayed, is even pregnant, so welcome to the 21st century."

Look at the war images in Ukraine and you often see heavy, muscular bodies, but Yela de Koning is a frail Coriolanus, emphasised by tight clothing. That is contrasted in the play with Fjodor Jozefzoon and Rick Paul van Mulligen with more volume, as is Betty Schuurman as mother Volumnia. (le nom oblige).

Van Rijn: "Yela fights that the pieces fly off, with a hell of a look, and deals rakish blows in battle with Joris Smit. For Yela and Nina, Scarlett Johansson was a role model, who, as Black Widow, chops everyone to pieces and can cash in."

Storming Capitol and people's power

Gender is easily the dominant topic of discussion these days, but Van Rijn stresses that the relationship between popular and political leadership as a traditional theme is certainly as topical in the Hague play. "Shakespeare wrote three Roman plays, which mark differences in power relations during Roman times. Coriolanus is the beginning. A member of the elite, Coriolanus disapproves of democracy as a form of state because the people are easily manipulated and can be a mindless monster as a mass.

This is what we see happening in the play. Shakespeare contrasts this with popular representatives who are well aware of Coriolanus' danger, but fight her by questionable means. Even as we read, we thought this was too crazy, because those machinations and ideas are still recognisable four hundred years later. Think of the peasant protests and even literally the storming of the Capitol with which the play begins, most recently Brazil."

Manipulations and opportunism, leave that to Shakespeare. Very topical is also the soldier as politician and vice versa. Van Rijn: "Yes, the distance between defence, politics and people is now shrinking in wartime. In Coriolanus, I find it fascinating that the will of the people is so emphatically only secondary or at will. It feels it is not taken seriously. And may not always be taken seriously either. But as one of the people's representatives says: What is Rome but the people?"