'Quite a few ex-believers have thrown out the baby with the bathwater: the music, the rituals, the language.' Composer Daan Manneke turns 80.

Daan Manneke will soon turn eighty. On 5 October, this great purveyor of vocal music and 'chapel master of space' will take centre stage during a programme by the Groot Omroepkoor in Utrecht's Jacobi Church. For this programme, he composed the brand new Geistliche Dämmerung, commissioned by the AVROTROSVrijdagconcert. Even at eighty, Manneke is all zest for life and energy. 'I keep on composing, after all, that's the most beautiful thing there is.'

Church attendance as an outing

You grew up in a Reformed family in Kruiningen, Zeeland. What did that mean for your musical education?

'The only music in our house consisted of psalms and folk songs from the collection Nederlandtsche gedenck-clanck by Adriaen Valerius. We sang the integral Geneva Psalter, from which Sweelinck also drew: 150 psalms in the rhyming of Petrus Dathenus. My mother played harmonium, my father and the four children - two boys and two girls - sang along at the top of their voices. Every Sunday afternoon from four to five, after the church service.'

'We loved that, as it was our only 'outing' that day. Apart from church attendance, you were not allowed to leave the door. We were 'doomed' to musicality, so to speak, but our ritual singing transcended all artificiality and self-centredness, it was vital and powerful. The melodies are beautiful. They originated in the 16^e century and are related to Gregorian chant, it is European heritage.'

'But the texts themselves are also magnificent. These still stem from the pre-Christian primal poetry of the Book of Psalms, the so-called Tehillim, hymns. These have inspired composers for centuries, to this day. In primary school, I myself sang a psalm solo to my classmates every Monday morning. It has remained a lifelong source of inspiration. - Actually, my entire oeuvre is vocal, in the broadest sense of the word.'

'Atheist' religion

Are you still religious?

'Quite a few ex-believers have thrown out the baby with the bathwater: the music, the rituals, the language et cetera. I too have broken with the Protestant faith, because I dislike dogmatism and love progressive thinking. But I am not a-religious, simply have no antenna for that orthodoxy and attitude to life. In the course of my life, I have moved more and more towards Spinoza. He represents for me the most 'atheistic' form of religion. God is nature, with all its unimaginable and transcendent qualities. Belief in and awareness of such a transcendent 'figure' gives me creative living space.'

So why have you never set a text by Spinoza to music?

'Well, that's a fascinating question. Spinoza has roughly been my guiding light for many decades, that's how far I've drifted from my childhood orthodoxy. But his texts are so abstract, doctrinal and argumentative: I just couldn't and can't bear to use them. A little creative engine needs to be set in motion in me. That does happen with verses from such diverse sources as Augustine, the Bible and poets like Rimbaud, Rilke and Gezelle.'

Autumn music

For your birthday concert with the Great Broadcasting Choir, you wrote 'Geistliche Dämmerung', set to a poem by Georg Trakl. What triggered your engine here?

'Trakl's serious colour appeals to me. He has a beautiful language of sound with tremendously rich metaphors. It is a language of autumn, twilight, transitions and fringes. The poem describes the progression from dusk to night, which is at the same time a progression of musical time. For me, it's really autumn music. It will be an eight-part piece, very spacious in terms of timbre and sonority.'

'Geistliche Dämmerung' is an in memoriam for my wonderful colleague Piet Kee, who passed away last year. Like me, he was an organist. My piece is a tribute to this highly accomplished musician and his radiant personality. I admired his careful and serving attitude towards music. He had a fine, humorous spirit and a broad sense of language, was never biased and had interests in many areas of life. Pete was a golden man and a delightful conversationalist.'

'I have also dedicated my new piece to the Groot Omroepkoor and choirmaster Klaas Stok. I am very taken with this wonderful ensemble. Let us rejoice that it has not been eliminated 'yet' unconscionably.'

Apples and pears

How does this choir compare to your own chamber choir Capella Breda?

'Surely that is comparing apples with oranges. The Groot Omroepkoor is highly professional, very agile, knows no difficulties. Moreover, it is wonderfully open to contemporary repertoire. In 2013, for instance, I wrote Canti ornati (Decorated chants) for them and Leo van Doeselaar, the organist of the Concertgebouw. They are grandmasters.'

'Cappella Breda was and is a wonderful company of musical amateur singers. They can do many things well, others a little less. All in all, it was enough to spend over 40 years with them. After all, I have always been an amateur conductor too, putting together composer programmes. Tailored to the handicaps, the assets, my quirks and the wonderful accommodating nature of the choir.'

'By the way, it is not that I should hold back when composing for Cappella Breda or similar ensembles. There are countless excellent amateur and semi-professional choirs in the Netherlands for which I enjoy writing. Frankly, on this plan I have hardly had to consider their (im)possibilities. Moreover, I have always found the exchange with their mostly highly professional conductors to be nourishing and inspiring.'

Finally, the inevitable question: what do you look back on most fondly? And what do you still hope to achieve?

'I look back on the past period with incredible pleasure. The luxury of this jubilee year, with the heartwarming care and commitment of the organisers is unsurpassed. And beyond that? I'm going to use the time still given to me to continue composing, after all, that's the best thing there is.'