'At many theatres, you don't have to arrive if you don't bring your own audience.'

I spoke to Peter Pluymaekers, artistic director of Theatre Group Zep, about what it is like to make theatre for vmbo students. The occasion was the not-so-jubilant performance of Cleopatra.

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'I'm always a bit reluctant to do Shakespeare. I find him difficult, and young people often find him corny. I felt the same about the Shakespeares I saw myself. I then started working with translators who were also very much in the rap scene. The last few years also with Brainpower. We developed a style that was accessible, which is what Shakespeare actually was. It was folk theatre.'

'Young people often don't want to invest in a piece that is at first sight tough and corny. So you have to make it easy for them. That it slides in with them, so to speak. I work a lot for vmbo. These are pupils who often go to theatre for the first time. Then you shouldn't hold it against them. Then they never come back.'

'The annoying thing about youth theatre is that young people don't pay that much for a ticket, so the buy-out fee is also very low. So you have to see in advance if you can fill the auditorium. If you have good contact with a school, that is the entrance to fill the auditorium. Often, at a theatre, you don't have to arrive if you don't bring your own audience.'

Listen to the entire 40-minute conversation here, or on any of the other 11 channels.