Tobias Kokkelmans starts as director of the Dutch Theatre Festival: 'More exchange between different groups in audiences and creators.'

'As for many people, the theatre festival really does mean something. Like the Fringe, it has become unmissable. I've been able to make artistic friendships there, I've been able to have arguments there, I've met people who I thought were adversaries who turned out to be comrades-in-arms. Because there are not only performances, there is also a lot of talking. It really is such a focal point in the year where everyone comes together. We need that, to be able to look each other in the eye. Now completely, now that it no longer has to be online.'

Tobias Kokkelmans was appointed director of the Netherlands Theatre Festival shortly before the festival. Kokkelmans comes from Rotterdam, where he worked as festival dramaturge of O., formerly known as the Operadagen. He has been in the festival business for 15 years, and is excited about this next step in his career. I talk to him in this podcast about his plans, such as more exchange, not only between the Amsterdam Fringe and the Dutch Theatre Festival, but also with theatre abroad.

And, of course, about the audience: 'The festival sold out radiantly. Even the performances where, thanks to the corona check, the one-and-a-half has been released. I spoke to Noraly Beyer at the performance Gliphoeve, which is programmed at the Bijlmerparktheater. I asked her how she ended up there and she said: offer does follow. I thought that was a wonderful statement. It attracts audiences and also audiences who are meeting each other for the first time.'

He is the third director of the festival, will he also do things completely differently? 'What Arthur Sonnen did as founder: he started the tradition of showing a jury selection, and his successor Jeffrey Meulman has really made it an audience festival. I get another task.'

And what will those be? 'One reason I was very keen to apply: the Fringe and the Dutch theatre festival are two very beautiful islands of paradise in the ocean of performing arts, and I want more boats to sail in them. So more exchange, and more intertwining. They are totally different audiences and different kinds of makers. I want to make sure they meet more often.'

It should not get too close: 'It should not become a merger, because merger is quarrelling. Examples abound.'

His plans are not very concrete yet, but he does have wishes: 'We now live in a time when younger generations have a lot to tell older generations, but the other way round, it should also be possible for older generations to share their experience with younger ones. I'm thinking of intergenerational exchange. So maybe Gijs Scholten van Aschat could do a pole-dancing course at the Fringe. You name it, although I don't know if Gijs Scholten van Aschat needs it.'

Listen to all Tobias Kokkelmans' other plans here.